A couple extra things I forget to mention in the post from yesterday. Hopefully this is the last of what I forgot, but if more comes up I will post in here.
POINTS:
Maybe not really a 'points' thing, but one thing we discussed was whether or not to allow people in playoff rounds as substitutes for people that won't be there. For instance, Brent Baker was not able to make the Championship round due to being out of town. So what we did was fill in that 8th spot with a person that wasn't actually in it for points, when Jon Juhler was in 9th but not eligible for points. This proposed change would mean that when Brent didn't make the round, that we would have allowed Jon in and allowed him to compete for the Championship. Still much to be considered, such as what to do if Jon were not mathematically able to win the Championship, should we do the same for the round of 16 or round of 32? Things like that. Decision has not been made, we will discuss at the next meeting.
PROCESS:
On the subject of information people about rules and process and such, one of the ideas what to have a flyer for everyone to read at the course. Again, logistics need to be worked out, but Scott Jacobs has volunteered to take on that task. So if anyone has recommendation in that area let me know, or get with Scott.
NEXT MEETING:
It's been offered up that we could use the upstairs space of Wilson and Washburn for the next meeting. I've not been up there, but I will say that the setup we had at DJs was the best we've had to date, at least from my perspective. I actually meant to mention this in the initial writeup. It helped me a lot not to have to compete with 14 other TVs and whatever games were on people's phones. We did have a couple games going on TV, but the sound was down. We also had plenty of space. I think we probably had 12-15 people there, but had room for more. So as long as W&W can meet that, I'm good with it. Also taking other recommendations if people have them.
I won't go over every single things we covered (we were there for like 5 hours), I'm just going to hit highlights and notes on things that may have changed. This is still a LOT, but it's also important for continued success of DefenderCup. So please read through this and speak up where you agree or disagree. I'm sure there is something in here that affects you or you feel strongly about. You can send questions and comments to admin@defendercup.com, there a few people that have access to that email. Or, if it's something you don't want out to everyone, send to bum@defendercup.com, that one is just me.
RULES:
- Mulligans: Decided to keep them as-is. But it was pointed out that many people may not know what that money goes towards, so we will work on getting that information out there.
- Max Hole Score: Keeping it at Double Par
- Gimmies: No decision reached. Without a decision, they stay as they are, which is "no gimmies". But this will likely be a key discussion point for the 2nd Winter Meeting in February or so.
- Senior Tees: No real controversy here, but it did delve into an over discussion of "all" tees, to include things like not having set tees based on gender or age, but on handicap. Skillet committed to coming up with some options and thoughts. This gets complicated real quick, so it will take some work to make a change. But it was deemed worth looking into.
- Play it as it Lies: Much discussion here too. Consensus is that we should play the ball as it lies, with the exceptions listed in our Rules page. The major concern is that not everyone is playing it the same way, that some people are fluffing/improving their lie when they shouldn't. So how to we enforce that? No decision made, this will come up again in Winter Meeting 2.
PROCESS:
- A lot of discussion around how (or if) to get more of our players involved in DefenderCup. Everything always falls on the same few people to make everything work. I don't think those people are complaining but the thought is that a lot of people are just using (abusing?) us for tee times. This led to a lot of discussion about what DefenderCup is, and what we want it to be. More discussion on that below, but in regard to this specific issue it was decided that we should come up with some tasks, or chores, that need completed or worked on, and that we start putting those up to volunteers to help. We'll then track who is/isn't helping and work to get those that aren't contributing to provide some measure of support if we can. Nothing drastic, we'll be working out ideas through the winter.
- The use of paper scorecards and validation was decidedly a good thing, so we will continue to do that.
- There was discussion on how to make everyone more aware of rules, process, and overall general communication. There is a lot of information put out in the weekly emails, but it's apparent most people aren't paying much attention to those. Probably the same with this News entry. Some ideas we had were: have everyone sign a form at the start of the year acknowledging the Rules page. Provide a written copy of highlighting things that people review when they check in for the round, things like that. This is an area we could use some more ideas on, so send them to me if you have them.
DUES:
- Price will stay at $10
- There was a fair amount of discussion around how hard to enforce Dues payment. For instance, we've got friends and family of out golfers that only play with us once every year or two, do we force them to pay? What about twice a year? Three times a year? There's probably a little more to work out in this area, like how to track it, but in short everyone is given a once-per-lifetime "freebie" where they don't have to pay the dues for a given year. So, effectively, everyone is required to pay the dues before they play, but their first round of the year will be allowed as a grace round to account for "I forgot my wallet" kind of things. If you don't pay on your second round of the year, then you won't earn points that day and won't be allowed into any more events that year until you pay. In short, Dues are required to be paid by everyone every year.
- We discussed what to do with the money from the Dues. General consensus was to pay out a bit more to gross, like maybe the top 4 spots. But that means taking money away from something else. Eric is going to work up some options we can vote on during the 2nd Winter Meeting.
POINTS:
- Everyone is pretty happy with how we do points, no recommended changes.
HANDICAPS:
- Although there was a fail amount of discussion, no significant changes were recommended. One thing that was brought up was to show how our Max Handicap (30) impacts players. So, for players that are actually over 30, but have an effective handicap of 30 due to the cap, to somehow show that on pages listing players. The intent is to make it more evident, mostly to those high handicappers. that they are leaving strokes out there that could be hurting them in points and money games. Players can see that when looking at their handicap calculation on the website, but it's not very apparent through most pages. I'll try to work something up by the 2nd Winter Meeting we can review.
- The other thing related to Handicaps was in the process of allowing for use of GHIN with new players. It was decided to continue allowing GHIN, but that the players account must be current/active, and that they have recorded a round in the last year. I will work on methods to enforce this through the website if I can, but we'll see.
MONEY GAMES:
- Currently the max number of strokes a person can get, for the purpose of Skins, is 1. No matter their handicap. It was decided to retain that setup.
- There was discussion on how to count putts for three-putt-poker. It is pretty well laid out on the Rules page, but the question was about if you putt off the green on your first putt, do you keep counting strokes as putts, to you start over once you get on the green, or what. Basically, you are counting strokes when the ball was on the green when you hit it. No starting over, no counting strokes made from off the green. We will beef up the words on the Rules page.
- It was decided to pay out a 2nd place for Overall Nasau. That will have to come out of some other pot, we will work on a formula over the winter and present something at the 2nd Winter Meeting. If anyone has ideas let me know.
- It was discussed on how to handle three-putt-poker when a player picks up their ball for Max Score (double par). Basically, think of the act of picking up the ball as a stroke. So if you had already putted twice, then pick up, that is a three-putt. This is a slight, but I think appropriate, change from past years.
- Much discussion on 'What is Longest Drive'. We've had some incidents over the years making this questionable at times. One is, if someone drives the green does it count as in the fairway. This was discussed at length, and it was decided to stick with our previous rule, that the green is NOT the fairway. By all standard definitions on the parts of a golf course, or Field of Play, the Fairway and Green are different things. The rules are different, such as marking and cleaning your ball. Although the USGA does not call out the Fairway as an individual item, the Green is specifically called out. That is what we decided in the past, and we are sticking with it. The problem is making sure everyone understands this, that is something in general we are going to work on. The other concern with Longest Drive is how to measure it. It was decided to measure the distance of the longest drive by actually measuring how far it is from the pin, as that is easier to measure. Technically, it's not accurate, as a person could have a drive that is further from the tee box, but further from the pin, because it was a hard dog-leg hole. So it really a 'closest to the pin in one', but that doesn't have the same ring to it. We will work to make sure holes where we put Longest Drive will be at least easier to administer these rules.
- On the subject of pin prizes, and on the idea of trying to get more people involved, we want to re-highlight the idea of having weekly winners be able to pick pin prizes, or maybe one of the pin prize holes. We still need to work out the logistics, but basically the points winner from a week will be given the option to pick 1 to all of the next week's pin prizes. There will be stipulations though, like putting a limit on when to have those pin prize selections in. Probably by like Wednesday afternoon we would have to have those selection sent in, and if not by that time then one of the regulars will set the pins. It won't be mandatory for winners to do this, we're mostly doing it as a means to get more involvement. I think that person would also then have the option of being in the first group if they want, as it helps to remember what holes they are on. And don't worry, you'd get help and guidance from some of us regulars on putting it together.
- We also decided there would be a base set of pin prizes each week, to include at least one Longest Drive, one Longest Putt, and one Closest to the Pin. That's three, leaving at least three up to the discretion of the person setting the pins.
- Another important thing has to do with Three-Putt-Poker. This has been a popular add to DefenderCup, but it does put a tax on the people that run it. In short, the people that run it each week want to be able to take a break from it. Again, we still need to work out the logistics, but basically we will only have Three-Putt-Poker when we have a volunteer that wants to run it. That volunteer could be one of the regulars (Scooter, Eric, Jim), or anyone else. Anyone new that wants to run it would of course get our support and training, and it would mean you are in the first group or two. But it would also mean that you need to stick around until the last group has come in and drawn cards and money has been handed out. This could also be 'groups' of people. For instance, if two people wanted to pair up on it, then one person could be in the front group, collect money and card hands until the second person came in and was ready, maybe they were in a middle group, then the first person could head out while the second person takes over. Something like that. But in short, we'll only be doing Three-Putt-Poker when we've had someone declare when they sign up or let me know they will be responsible for running it. Could be Scooter, could be you, could be anyone. Could be someone that's not even golfing that day. I will make it part of the Friday announcement as to who is running it, just like we do for Marshall.
SCHEDULE:
- No change to the 'season', it will roughly be 1 April to 1 October. Looking at 2026 calendar, it looks like our first round will be on 4 April, and our championship will be 3 October. Rounds before 4 April will be Exhibition, so not count for points or for/against handicaps.
- As for courses, I heard 'less Willow Lakes' and 'more Highlands'. I'll work towards that, but looking back we only played 5 points rounds at Willow last year, which is WAY down from years past. And with that being our Home course, where DefenderCup was founded, it will still have it's place in our rotation. Other course suggestions I heard were to eliminate Whispering Woods (formerly Fox Run) and Fairways in Lincoln. Courses recommended for adds to the rotation where York, Oakland and Red Oak. It was also asked to get on Johnny Goodman, but I've had trouble for years getting us on there. They don't want us early in the day, they've too many standing tee times, and in the past we've always wanted to not start too late. But I certainly keep trying to get us on there.
- Another subject about schedule was on playing 9-hole courses. This was generally accepted as 'good', so we'll try to keep that going every once in a while. Courses that were recommended for this are Country Drive by Ashland and Grampa's Woods south of Louisville. We'll see what we can do for those, and let me know if you have other recommendations.
- I asked about time of day for tee times, and general consensus was earlier tee times for courses closer to Omaha, and later tee times for courses further away. This is of course subject to availability, but it's good to have at least a target to shoot for. It also seems that people are fine with traveling an hour plus to golf, as long as it's a decent course.
WEBSITE:
- We didn't get into too much here. I did talk about some of the changes I plan to make, including fixing how we work points when say Men have a different par than Ladies, say 72 vs 70. The website currently doesn't do that right, and part of it is manual anyway, so I'm going to rework that this winter. We did talk about adding a Q&A page, where people can submit questions on pretty much anything and someone will answer. Questions will be anonymous, so you won't have to identify yourself, and answers will be from 'The DICKS', where they will collaborate on an appropriate answer. I will try to have that on the website by our second Winter Meeting so we can preview it. I will have to think about how to implement it and where to put it, things like that.
- Other planned changes are start tracking money on the site, work on an Android and iPhone app, more alerting in the app on Slow Play, track people's check-in time compared to their tee time, sortable columns on some pages, and dumping Group Me in favor of Facebook. That last one will take some work, they don't make the API easy to use, but I have started work on it.
DEFENDERCUP INDEPENDENT COMMITTEE of KINDRED SPIRITS (DICKS)
- No proposed changes to membership, but we will revisit at the next Winter Meeting. If someone is interested in joining let me know.
OTHER:
- There was a fair amount of discussion about what we want to do with DefenderCup. Make it bigger? Is it too big? Too formal? Not formal enough? All good questions, and I don't think there was a major consensus on say 'size' of DefenderCup. But there were some stated views that I think influence 'where we go from here'. First, I think it was agreed that DefenderCup is as big as it can get with the number of people we have running things. It's generally the same few people, and these people are generally giving up their Saturdays almost every week. It's a full time gig on Saturdays for some of us, plus all the time spent during the week. So if DefenderCup is going to get any bigger, we NEED to get more people involved. Some of the ideas mentioned above like helping with pin prizes, three-putt-poker, and Marshall, all lead into that. Another factor is that we don't want people just using us for tee times, and not participating in anything or becoming part of the 'group'. It's not meant to be a clique, this isn't high school, but it's tough not to feel like I'm being 'used' by some people when all they do us show up and golf then leave without any participation in Money Games, or even just sticking around to chat. But not everyone is comfortable just sitting around after, or putting themselves out there on gameday. So the idea of some kind of 'chores list' or 'tasks' that can be done, that people can sign up for, and that their participation will be tracked, came up. I'd still have to create the system to track it, so will work on something. But I could use help in coming up with what those things would be. Certainly things like Marshall, setting pin prizes, and running three-putt-poker would count. But what else? Calling to confirm with courses a month out? Just helping to Marshall? Just helping with Three Putt? Holder and tracker of Dues money? Monitoring and QAing the Rules page? I could use ideas here.
- There was also talk about 'vetting' new players. Again, no real details, but basically holding folks accountable for people they bring into the league. Like, maybe there's a probationary period where a new player must play with the person that brought them in for two rounds, and they much also play with one of the DICKS for two rounds, before they are given a login to the site. I'm kind of making this up as I sit here, but that's the essence. That we want people that want to participate and be part of the group, and not just abuse us for tee times.
- Combining those last two statements, plus changes to the site, one thought was to no longer allow people to sign up by sending an email. That people would be forced to sign up through the website on their own. I kind of like this, as then it is tracked and all that better. But I also don't want to force people into a certain technology or way of doing business. One things I've been wanting to do for a long time is allow people to add other as a proxy. For instance, I'd make it so Scott and Bridget could add each other, since they are in the same house. Same with say Johnny, Diane, and Brent A. A person would have to let me know ahead of time, like at the beginning of the year, who all can add/remove them from events, but then once that was set then it'd be easy. This would serve as forcing people to at least participate so much as to get an account, which would help with things like notifications and things, as well as take some of the pressure off those of us that monitor that email address. I'm definitely going to setup the proxy add/remove thing one of those days, and once we have that we'll talk about going further with all of that.
- We also talked about a number of other smaller things, like a Ryder Cup type event, a multi-day trip out of town, and other things that were really just ideas that need someone to champion them and be the point person so we can talk it out through the year. I'm sure there will be more on those kinds of things in the coming months.
The first Winter Meeting will be at DJ's Dugout in Bellevue on November 15th starting at noon. I have reserved a private section in the back.
Below are recommended issues to cover. This list is based on things I've heard or seen through the year, personal requests made by others to have them covered, a few of my own thoughts, and things that seem to come up every year. But I am still taking requests for the agenda, and of course people can just bring what they want to the meeting without sending it in early. It just helps the flow of the discussion if we have some sort of agenda.
I will update this page if significant subjects are requested, otherwise I may have a few hand-written things to add on Saturday. But at this time, here's what I have, loosely organized by subject:
RULES:
Note: See the Rules page for written rules for 2025, effectively this section is talking about that page.
PROCESS:
This is kind of a generic section, but is meant to cover things like just how we go about DefenderCup.
DUES:
POINTS:
HANDICAPS:
MONEY GAMES:
SCHEDULE:
WEBSITE:
DEFENDERCUP INDEPENDENT COMMITTEE OF KINDRED SPIRITS (DICKS)
OTHER:
These are some random thoughts I've heard people mention through the year and took notes on to discuss now.